31 Seater Projects - Norms Buses - Monthly activity

Norman Julian 9th Jun
: I received the new housing today and I am very happy with the workmanship.
: You can notice the difference in the weight of each one that the new one is alot more beefier but that could mean the original is thin from corrosion.
: The 3rd photo is where it attaches to.
: Thanks again to Andrew Blacklock for arranging things.
: This recasting belongs to the Leyland 31 seater.

Norman Julian 10th Jun
: After a week doing other things I'm back into it.
: Because I didn't have a socket that was big enough for this nut, I got a second mortgage and bought this impact spanner.
: One blow and it was loose.
: I also made yet another puller.
: It popped almost immediately.
: You can see now the state of the pulley.
: I need to get a replacement.
: It was also suggested while I have the pulley off to replace the front cover seal.

Norman Julian 10th Jun
: The crossmember and hanging engine mounts were thoroughly cleaned and rust converter was applied and then 2 coats of primer and 2 coats of epoxy top coat.
: In good drying conditions the epoxy paint takes up to 6 hrs to dry before touching and 24 hrs to repaint.
: This time of the year here it takes from morning till dark just to be touch dry.
: You have to be very patient with this paint but it really is hard when it is fully cured.
: These parts took about 4 days to paint and harden.

Norman Julian 11th Jun
: This radiator shroud is a lost cause so a replacement is warranted.
: Some of the frame holding it to the radiator is also badly corroded.
: The radiator itself is an unknown quantity.
: There are rubber seals on either end of the tubes so I wont be disturbing it.
: I will however investigate whether it can be just cleaned out.
: I have never fooled around with any radiator.
: I have always left it to the professionals.
: The replacement shroud was kindly given to me and I think it should work fine.
: This unit has never been on a bus.
: There are subtle differences between the original and the replacement.

Brian Blunt
: Is the header tank alloy?
: Norman Julian
: Brian Blunt I think it is actually!
: Robert John Hood
: Can show you how to do a radiator rebuild Norm.
: My Albion was stuffed and we resurrected it.
: Brian Blunt
: I have also rebuilt one of these Leyland radiators.
: We had leaking seals on the tubes.
: Robert John Hood
: Brian Blunt, we had to re-sleeve the tubes and make up composite rubbers.
: New plates and new rubber tank gaskets all from scratch.
: Norman Julian
: Robert John Hood I would like to know how it is done.
: Brian Blunt
: This was our radiator, with plates on the back of the the tanks. That copper overflow pipe went though the alloy and caused a lot of electrolytic erosion.
: 65 tubes we had to find new rubbers for.

Brian Blunt
: Be wary of putting coolant in with those tube ferrules.
: We replaced ours with NOS items, but they perished within 12 months
: Norman Julian
: Brian Blunt so by putting coolant in the engine you are doing the radiator no favours.
: Brian Blunt
: I would be careful.
: Those old rubbers might not be friendly to modern chemicals.
: We ended up using some cart suspension bushes that were the right size
: Norman Julian
: Brian Blunt I may do some research into glycol!
: Andrew Blacklock
: Brian Blunt so was it the age of the nos?
: Brian Blunt
: Andrew Blacklock I guess so.
: They didn’t look too bad when we put them in
: Andrew Blacklock
: Brian Blunt probably never know but there is different chemistry in corrosion inhibitors examples acidity and alkaline based, I used not acidic in my Leyland by fleetgaurd via Cummins
: Andrew Blacklock
: I think you can buy new ones ask Alan Routh what he used in CT053
: Brian Blunt
: I made enquiries with radiator experts in Australia, UK and America.
: No one had them in that particular size.
: I did design an alternative using O rings, but found MMP before we got round to testing it.
: Brian Blunt
: Dennis radiators don't have a problem with leaky seals though

Norman Julian 12 Jun
: Once again a fellow enthusiast came to the rescue with a workshop manual for this bus.
: I took it to Officeworks and got 2 copies done and where it was coloured they did it as well.
: Each one has about 120 pages and they are double sided.
: Spiral bound for $32 each.
: Got 2 done for twice the price.
: I did the same thing with the TD5.
: I have one for the workshop and one I can read in the house.

Norman Julian 13 Jun
: I learnt something today.
: I would have thought the radiator shroud and grill were joined together and then added to the radiator but no.
: The grill bolts onto the front of the radiator then the shroud goes on after.
: You can also see the true size of the radiator.
: About 2/3rds the length of the shroud.

Norman Julian 13 Jun
: Done thus far!
: I took off the bottom outlet on one side and a bung on the other side.
: Completely choked up with a combo of engine rust and dried up mineral dust from water over the years.
: The bolts that hold together the top and bottom tanks are completely corroded away.
: On the positive side though is the tubes don't have any rusty marks top or bottom.
: The unknown thing here is whether the seals are hard and cracked and will leak as soon as water and heat get to them.

Brian Blunt
: They were actually a suspension bush with the right i/d and o/d.
: We had to cut the flange off one end
: Norman Julian
: Brian Blunt how long ago because things are a little different there now
: Brian Blunt
: About 3 years ago.
: It was under new management at that time, and they were quite good.
: Don't think we've used them lately.
: Norman Julian
: Apparently Brian Blunt this radiator and the way it is set up is different to the one you did.
: This just has "O" rings top and bottom.
: Andrew Blacklock
: Norman Julian really..?
: Norman Julian
: Andrew Blacklock Scott Wilson just informed me
: Carle Gregory
: i know a bloke who does old school readiators
: Andrew Blacklock
: Try Mr Motorparts
: Brian Blunt
: That's where i got the first NOS set from.
: There's none left now.
: Andrew Blacklock

Norman Julian 14th Jun
: Top and bottom of the radiator are off.
: Every bolt that holds the top and bottom tank had to be cut off.
: I'm not sure but the bottom tank looks like it is bronze.
: It could be brass but because they used to use bronze quite a bit in those days
: I'm thinking that is what it is.
: I was lucky that with the cut off bolts I could get a pair of vice grips around and take of the remaining thread all bar 3 bolts.
: The top tank was a bit of a mystery till I sanded a bit off.
: It is brass.
: Luckily it wasn't anything else or it wouldn't be around anymore.
: The corrosion was really bad.
: In the very top helping to hold down the top tank was 6mm steel flat bar, which went all the way round probably to keep the brass tank sealed down flat.
: Most of the steel was corroded away to nothing.

Norman Julian
: These nuts are screwed into this bottom plate.
: Looks like you undo all the nuts and tap the base off.
: Garry Newton
: Norman Julian not that easy because the rubber seals will be squashed into the internal thread and stuck to the tubes. Give it a go, never done it that way before, don't get too excited and brake the plate .
: Norman Julian
: Garry Newton yeah it didn't work.
: I have been taking them out one at a time.
: I'm into the centre set now.
: Garry Newton
: Norman Julian good, success thats what I like to hear.
: Norman Julian
: Some of the tubes have small dents in them near the ends.
: Not sure what that is all about.
: I have to make sure when I put the tube through the seal it isn't anywhere near those dents.
: By the way the seals still have plenty of grip on the tube.
: Garry Newton
: Norman Julian are they dents caused by the rubbbers being tightened too tight, do you think.?
: We use to have a piece of round rod the same size as the inside of the tube tapered on the end welded to a piece of angle then clamped in the vice and pushed and twisted the tube onto it , maybe with a gentle tap with a small hammer to ease the dent out, and while it is there a bit of fine emery tape to clean the tube.
: Norman Julian
: Garry Newton I will take a photo.
: Garry Newton
: Norman Julian ok
: Norman Julian
: Garry Newton to start with I thought it might have been me when twisting the tube out but I was watching another one when I was undoing the nut and then I noticed the ding in a few in this manner.

Garry Newton
: Norman Julian I'm pretty sure it's caused by the rubbbers being tightened too tight, it only happened to this type of radiator with the nut, they will be ok after the tapered rod and a gentle tap on the high spots.
: Norman Julian
: Garry Newton what do you think I should do with the rubber seals, either add an O ring or even replace them and if that's the case where do you get replacements?
: Garry Newton
: Norman Julian I'm not sure, new seals would be the answer but if they are not available its hard.
: The ones I have done before the seals were hard stuck to the tubes so no way could be reused.
: If you think the rubber seals are soft and look good enough to be reused it's worth trying, at least you can test it without putting it in the bus.
: Put the radiator together before you put the tubes in

John Clarke
: Ok, I'll bite.
: What's wrong with them?
: Norman Julian
: John Clarke nothing now.
: All been sorted
: John Clarke
: Norman Julian Phew, that's a relief!
: Norman Julian
: John Clarke there were supposed to be 8 long and 8 short, but I received 16 long.
: John Clarke
: It's amazing the spares they must have!
: Stuart Brown
: That seems quite a lot but then the engine is larger than a car one..
: Norman Julian
: Stuart Brown these are only the front ones.
: There are 8 more at the back.

Norman Julian 18th Jun
: Down to the basics!
: Looking at these rubber seals.
: They aren't that bad but I did break one getting it out to have a look.
: I will see if I can get a replacement for all of them.
: I will need nearly 100.
: In the mean time I will clean everything up.
: I will try and straighten the fins on most of the tubes.

Norman Julian 18th Jun
: Because I didn't understand how this goes together until I pulled it apart I was cranky with myself because I thought I was putting these dings in the tube when I was getting them out, but after seeing how it works I don't feel so bad. This to me is both carelessness and lack of understanding or even not caring.
: I cleaned up the end of the tube and the nut to show you what I mean.
: In the second picture you can see the thread and the hole on the other side of the base.
: The rubber seal goes on the tube then seats in the threaded hole.
: The threaded nut then threads onto the base thread and by screwing it in it locks down on the rubber seal and spreads the rubber out to form a seal.
: Now you only have to give the nut a certain amount of tightening pressure to form a tight seal.
: Overtighening will do one thing.
: Pressure has to go somewhere so it crushes the tube which has happened here.

Norman Julian 20th Jun
: I started refurbishing the 48 tubes of the radiator.
: Each one has a spiral band of copper loops going from one end to the other.
: Each one takes me about 1.5 hrs to do.
: Because over the years the copper loops of wire get crushed and lay over themselves, dirt gets trapped between themselves so their effectiveness lessons.
: I sit down on my chair and painstakingly pull them all back into alignment using a small flat bladed screwdriver and then the dirt and dust comes out.
: It is surprising how much dirt comes out.
: You all would know what a radiator does and how important fins on a modern radiator are.
: These loops of wire are very important to these radiators and keeping the engines cool.
: More over because these buses don't go fast enough for any real air flowing through to keep the engines cool, they need as much air flow as possible.
: Having these tubes restricted in this way can certainly aid in overheating.
: Thus far I have finished 5.
: In this picture the bottom one has been restored and you can see in the top one how damaged it is.

Norman Julian 22nd Jun
: Most of the frame of the radiator is away being thoroughly cleaned and bead blasted.
: There are a few things I still have to do like making new studs and gaskets.
: The seals have been a problem but I can make new ones myself.
: There are still are a few people thinking I have the seals with the collar.
: You learn new things nearly every day.
: I learnt today that the AEC tubes look identical to these but they are about 40mm longer.

Norman Julian 27th Jun
: I am keeping you all apprised as to updates on these very hard to find rubber seals.
: I did have some progress as to what they are actually called.
: These are actually called "square section O rings or squared off O rings.
: After surfing the net I found one company in Auz but the size is too small for what they carry.
: He said that they deal with a company in England and he contacted them but a reply will only be received sometime next week.
: I did contact a company in the states which can make them.
: They say that no moulding is required so we will see how that goes.

Garry Macoid
: Try a seal supplier, you can get a very similar thing called a quad seal, get the viton version which is high temperature proof.
: Robert Stevenson
: Alco might be worth a search.
: They make cable glands.
: They may sell replacement rubbers for them as well.
: They range from about 6 mm up I would reckon.
: Robert Stevenson
: Other than that, a couple of wad punches and some insertion rubber
: Norman Julian
: I have already thought about hose.
: I can get hose with the right dimentions.

Norms Restoration - 31 Seater Projects

1953 Leyland OPD2/1 [2818]

2020

Mechanical June