31 Seater Projects & Leyland DT 5 - Norms Buses - Monthly December arrival activity

Norm Jullian 6th Dec
: Brian Musgrove
: What's that?
: Norman Julian
: Still trying to get my head around it Brian but it is part of the gravity feed fuel system.
: Colin Sidaway
: It's an autovac
: Norman Julian
: There is an inner and out chamber.
: The inner chamber creates a vacuum which sucks up fuel from the fuel tank then it relies on gravity to take it from there to the engine.
: Brian Blunt
: There should be a vacuum exhauster on the engine for the brakes, which I think connects to the outer tank.
: Autovacs can be very touchy when they get old.
: Norman Julian
: Bit of a learning curve for me but I will work it out.
: Apparently it comes with a large workshop manual.

Garth Taylor
: So now it is time to move to Plan B!
: Norman Julian That happened for a little while till the batteries died. We worked something out it nearly kicked over, but all too late.
: Chris Dempsey
: Pity you didn`t have the crank handle Norm
: Norman Julian
: The crank handle was there. To be honest I never gave it a thought.
: In any case the compression would have given both of us a heart attack. LOL
: Frank Bugby
: need a new site name like norms bus collection ?
: Chris Dempsey
: How about frogs and deckers for a new name
: Norman Julian
: Settle down boys. LOL.
: Frank Bugby
: still got the leopard ?
: Norman Julian
: Yeah the container!
: Andrew Blacklock
: Blowing any smoke out exhaust when u was cranking it?
: Norman Julian
: Never looked.
: We were to busy trying to start her.
: Andrew Blacklock
: Norman Julian no smoke = no fuel getting to the pots
: Alan Routh
: It had the rur rur rur but your missing the chugada chugada chugada to make the broom broom
: Norman Julian
: The head gasket has an air leak. That you will definitely notice.
: Andrew Blacklock
: Sounds like compression leak from head but check exhaust manifold first
: Steve Maher
: Someone forgot the Start Ya Bastard
: Norman Julian
: That didn't work. I had to go and get some "Com on, start ya Bastard"!
: Edward Parker
: Did you check no one had push decompression lever behind fan thats what leak sounds like
: Norman Julian
: In the video when the engine is first started the decompressor was in that is why it sounded faster. Then he got out of the bus and pulled the lever and then started it again.
: I was just reading the book and there is supposed to be fuel in the tank which I don't think there was so that means the autovac was sucking in air.
: Just after this video was done I put in 10 litres of fuel in the tank and then filled the autovac again and reprimed the system and it almost started. The only thing was the batteries died and I went and bought 2 new batteries but I ran out of time and came home.

: Gregor Neil Robertson
: Wispy white smoke at exhaust equals fuel in cylinders but no fire equals air in the system or glow plugs knackered or injectors need checked and cleaned. Bleed system.
: Hate to suggest easy start. Or blowtorch into air intake with the air cleaner taken off, while engine’s being turned over.
: Check lift pump, (install a repair kit if necessary) injector pump, fuel lines blown through with compressed air, and flush tank.
: Alan Routh
: She'll be right norm. Old leylands always start. It'll be off the button next video
: Norman Julian
: This whole problem could be solved I think if I put an electric pump in the system and bypassed this antiquated system.
: Norman Julian
: Just adding to what I said above. The book said you can assist the battery with the crank handle while she is being started by the batteries.
: Craig Parkinson
: Pump the elements up on the pump till the lines are under pressure between the pump and injectors and it will start first go and ya won't flatten the batterys
: Norman Julian
: You have a bus with the same engine so you should know this system.
: I think there is air getting in the autovac somewhere which wont make the system work properly.

Craig Parkinson
: Did that with 2619 when I first got it
: Brian Blunt
: Norman Julian the autovac won't work unless the engine is running and creating a vacuum. You should be able to fill up the header tank to get it started. Looks like there is a tap/filter below the tank, make sure fuel is getting through there.
: Norman Julian
: The auto vac has a holding tank in the front and you fill that tank up through the top and it travels through. The bus can travel on that fuel for about 5 kms. The problem is that air can get it by a number of ways and there was a few leaks when the fu...See more
: Norman Julian
: What we might end up doing is putting a fuel pump in the line to just pump the fuel directly from the tank.
: Craig Parkinson
: no need just run it off a gravity tank direct to the pump
: Norman Julian
: Yeah! That's probably the way to go.

John Lidstone
: I saw a Guy Arab MkIV with the 'failsafe Autovac by-pass fuel system' fitted only a few months ago.
: Norman Julian
: We did that. I remember that with the frog. Got a screwdriver under each one and pulled them up till there was too much pressure to do it anymore.
: Chris Dempsey
: Well if the next lot of batteries fail Norm just get a dozen people and push 1635 along the road and clutch start the old girl
: Norman Julian
: It only has to move 20 metres. That's all then the guy can hitch it up and bring her home. I can sort it out here. I did with the frog now she runs like a dream.
: Craig Parkinson
: Make sure you pop the Axel's out or you'll distroy the diff towing it
: Norman Julian
: Roger that!
: Norman Julian
: Alistair will be doing that. I have no idea how to.

Feral Pigeon
: Have to dig up the clothes line in the way, first !
: Norman Julian
: Those lines have a ground socket.
: Brian Blunt
: If it won't fire at that cranking speed, clutch starting won't help.
: Norman Julian
: Craig Parkinson is right.
: I will just bypass all the bullshit and put a small container beside the engine and have a hose connected straight to the injector pump and gravity feed it.
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: And if you’re lucky there’s no air on the injector side of the injector fuel pump.
: Does the engine have glow plugs and if so do they work?
: Remove them, power them up from a battery and see if they’re glowing?
: Craig Parkinson
: Has a bleeder tap on the front of the pump to release any air
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: That’s handy. On all the diesel motors I’ve dealt with I never encountered that. Great idea.
: Norman Julian
: All that blue stuff at the bottom of that box is silicone. There is a new one among the spare parts. I will just get the thing going any way I can to get it home.
: Maxwell Mcroberts
: A man on a mission and big boys toys

Feral Pigeon
: Can't believe the Waddingtons badge survived. ��
: Scott Wilson
: A repo that David Wilson had made in the 80's.
: David Wilson
: thats a replica I made
: Feral Pigeon
: David Wilson excellent repo ��
: Norman Julian
: I wasn't going to say!
: James Leonard Garrod
: Damn you both, Scott & David Wilson for 'Blowing Away' the 'romantic notion' of a lovely old badge surviving the ravages of time! Bugger bugger bugger.....
: Frank Bugby
: hope the model railway comes with the bus ?
: Frank Bugby
: all you need is a train set to play with now.
: David Wilson
: I have several originals - but too precious to go on vehicles
: Norman Julian
: Having an original one would be nice but it's not the be all end all. Actually I can do wonders with that example anyway.
: James Leonard Garrod You could bury this one in cow poo & mud for six months to make it look old.....
: Frank Bugby
: ��

Norman Julian
: This is different to what I'm used too.
: Andrew Blacklock
: need a tesla battery from south aust lol
: Norman Julian
: I think this is done this way because it has a 12 volt system and a 24 volt system simultaneously.
: Feral Pigeon
: Could have been 24V start, 12V run.
: A lot of trucks back in the day were.
: Norman Julian
: All the lights are 12 volt bulbs.
: Carle Gregory
: ACCO3070 was a 24v start and 12 running

Norman Jullian 8th Dec
: A little update on the double decker.
: The previous owner rang me today and said he managed to get the motor going but it wont idle. He said the hissing sound you heard got louder which means the head gasket has gone.
: It isn't leaking oil.
: Not sure about water yet because there isn't any in there yet.
: The tow truck driver will be meeting me up there tomorrow and we will be bringing her back here.
: The plan is to move her under her own power to the back gate which is around 15 metres then out into the back lane to be hitched up to the truck.
: If however the bus wont move because she is in small hollows that she created herself over the years by sitting on soil, the truck has a side winch that will pull her out to the laneway.
: Don't worry about the truck it is 20 tonnes.
: That's the plan anyway.

Brian Musgrove
: I would take extreme care adding water, when you know it's got a blown head gasket, not worth the risk to hydraulic lock the engine, and have water sitting in a cylinder causing rust.
: Norman Julian
: Thanks Brian.
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: Absolutely. Well said. If it’s running and no water - beware of seizing it.
: Brian Musgrove
: Gregor Neil Robertson I would agree, if you disconnect the water pump belt, so you don't stuff the seal, an old school diesel would run for 5-10 minutes with no problems
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: So start and run her for just those critical moments when a tricky manoeuvre is needed - assuming there aren’t transmission problems (clutch, seized brakes or just flat tyres)
: Norman Julian
: I ran the leyland for a short while when I got it with no water.
: Only a short while mind you.
: If water gets in the cylinders of the decker it wont hurt in the short term too much.
: I have to move her around before she settles in the new shed when built....See more
: Norman Julian Gregor
: Neil Robertson These engines take a little while to heat up so for short spurts you can move them around without water in them.
: Feral Pigeon
: Norman Julian Does the engine have a de-compressor for starting by using the crank handle ?.
: Norman Julian
: Sure does.
: If you have batteries that are a little bit sus you can operate the crank (when engaged) at the same time someone is trying to battery start.
: It apparently helps assists the batteries when starting.

Gregor Neil Robertson
: Omg that’s stress time.
: And today I’ve got to move my Bedford lorry cab to the paint shop.
: I’ve got a good big trailer but none of my friends free to help with lifting it in... maybe there will be chaps in its present location (garage where welding was done) who will be willing.
: Know how you feel

: James Webb
: Go down to your local pub and buy some beers, the universal language lol.
: I would love to help but the plane fare would kill me. LOL
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: The job went a dream. 4 guys lifted it.
: Now to under seal it and then a good paint spray job.

Gregor Neil Robertson
: She’ll get a proper going over while she’s on her back (it’s the lorry cab I’m talking about!)
: Norman Julian
: That is a healthy size trailer.
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: Norman Julian my neighbour’s.
: I’ve got to stay friends there! My Freelander copes with it but a 3 ltr would be better.
: Robert John Hood
: Don't forget to remove the axles and the tailshaft Norm.
: Norman Julian
: Thought it was just the axles, Robert?
: Robert John Hood
: I've always removed both. 10 minutes.
: I was more worried about something falling off tha Albion at speed.
: The Leyland is a bloody beauty Mate.
: You've done well for yourself.
: Norman Julian
: Thanks Rob.
: I will know more when she is stripped down.

Robert John Hood I'm curious.
: If the axles are off then because there is nothing engaging the diff the drive shafts wont spin so what is your worry.?
: Robert John Hood
: With mine the worry was that the tailshaft was damaged at the harmonic balancer.
: The danage wasn't visable initally.
: The whole lot could have fallen out at 100 kph.
: I don't know what the balancer set up is on yours but...
: Have a look my friend.
: Catherine Norman
: We got lucky Norm when we rescued AEC regent 2590 with Alistair's help from Wellington we got her running and driving in about 3 days headlights installed and all.
: Luckily she drove all the way back to Sydney under the control of Joe and Frankie our two volunteers without problem.
: I even struggled to keep up with her in my car coming down the mountains and across Sydney.
: Best wishes for tomorrow x
: Edward Parker
: Who u using to tow it Norman Julian
: Norman Julian
: Peter from Orange Heavy Towing.
: Edward Parker
: Ah good choice he good bloke moved quite a few things for me say hello for me
: Norman Julian
: Yeah sounds like it. He has moved Albert a few times.
: Edward Parker
: Yeah he moved semi from coonamble for me
: Keith Gillian
: Good luck with it norm
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: Sorry but can I display my ignorance as a mainly car and light commercial restorer.
: Why disconnect between gearbox and diff for towing? Is it an auto gearbox? Or do you remove the halfshafts? Thanks for any info.
: James Leonard Garrod
: Gently, gently, catchee Monkey, Norm, don't harm that magnificent beast......

Andrew Blacklock
: 680 it. lol
: Robert John Hood
: But not the torque Norm.
: Andrew Blacklock
: All torque or talk ? lol
: Norman Julian
: You spoit the fun Robert. LOL.
: Norman Julian
: Between the torque and the diff, especially the diff, well . . .
: Adam Draper
: Pfftt 7.7 got nothing you need the 11.3 real power!!
: Norman Julian
: Sorry Adam.
: Not into pissing contests. LOL
: Andrew Blacklock
: V8 terrier engine lol .....up your alley mate
: Edward Parker
: 7 litre volvo be better repower option
: Frank Bugby
: Whats the dlff only a matter of apinion
: Andrew Blacklock
: lol
: Norman Julian
: That's bloody terrible Frank. LOL.
: Stuart Gale
: it may be norm... but it takes the crown ha ha
: Brian Blunt
: With a "cam-in-head" layout (not overhead cam) it was quite advanced for its time.
: There is a petrol powered version of this engine which uses the same block

On its way to my place

Ian Smith
: What company after Gov
: Chris Dempsey
: 1635 back on the road
: David Wilson
: looks..............fantastic
: Steve Maher
: Under its own steam
: Brian Blunt
: If it has a blown head gasket, that may be an inappropriate term LOL
: Brian Musgrove
: Did you get it started?
: Norman Julian
: Yes Brian
: Anton Frank
: 2 tickets to Circular Quay thanks. One concession !!!! ��
: Phil Bugby
: Nice to see something like that being saved

Robert John Hood
: The steer tyres on 1899 are heaps older than that. They are they same odd set that John Ward photographed her wearing on Spit Hill in 1968.
: David Wilson
: how's 1899 progressing Robert ?
: Robert John Hood
: Unfortunately I've been bogged down on other things David. The bodywork is complete and she's driveable.
: I need to grasp the nettle and finish her.
: There's certainly been enough time and money poured into the project.

Chris Dempsey
: Hi honey I am home with the new addition to the family
: Catherine Norman
: Well done Norm though when some guys buy things they hide them from their wives and say oh I've had that for ages lol. May be a bit hard to convince Marea that its been around for a while still a nice addition to the Julian family x
: Norman Julian
: She doesn't care what I do.
: Catherine Norman
: At least it keeps you out of the pub and she knows where you are lol
: Norman Julian
: I don't drink much Cath. LOL. Boring aren't I. LOL
: Mark Ellery
: Imagine how many buses you would have if you did
: Catherine Norman
: Just a nice guy Norm x
: Norman Julian
: I really am too! Just ask me I will tell you. LOL
: Greg Gibson
: What a great Christmas present to yourself.

Norman Jullian 9th Dec
: I want to let everyone know that in the future it maybe a little harder to transport double deckers on trucks like the one you see in the photos here.
: Apparently the RMS wants the vehicle being towed to have brakes that work.
: At the moment that doesn't happen because these old buses have to have their engines running to be any good.
: Buses of the single decker type obviously get transported on low loaders and the like but double deckers with no engines and gearboxes will otherwise have to have some sort of braking system set up on them or they wont be transported back through areas that have inspection bays.
: Modern trucks and buses etc can have there air lines connected up with the truck towing.
: Anyway this is what I was told today.
: Robert John Hood
: Bureaucratic bullshit.
: Graeme Knappick
: Exactly!
: Carle Gregory
: what he said
: Brian Blunt
: You should be able to put a dd on a lowloader, but it will need over-height permits to move, and you will need to be careful with route planning
: Edward Parker
: U can only go to 5mtrs ive been through that they just dont make it under even without wheels
: Craig Parkinson
: Will with a low boy trailer and I now have access to one
: Edward Parker
: Didnt think you could move motor vehicles tho Craig Parkinson
: Craig Parkinson
: Unregistered I can
: Edward Parker
: But ive asked you b 4 and you said you cant
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: So does the bus have cable brakes?
: Should be dead easy. Just tie a few knots in the cables (well my ‘46 Rover 10 has rod brakes.
: What a treat not having to bother with hydraulics.
: Everyone should have ‘em) And that’s my lad by the way...

Edward Parker
: Yet but when it breaks down or in accident rms or cops instruct it to be towed anyway or if being towed through checking station and get defected for not having brakes connect its silly as what they going to do ground combination and keep it at checking station as no one can move it without brakes it rediculous
: Sam Hawkins
: I would have parked it right in the way of them pricks when they told me to move it I would have told them that it will be moved to my destination or not at all.
: If the professional tow truck driver was satisfied that the movement was safe then I’d question the “expertise” of the inspector
: Hate the HVIS lottery.

: David Wilson
: they were a sweet sounding motor - much nicer than a 600
: Norman Julian
: It's funny how things happen. It has only been less than 2 weeks from the time I heard about it for sale to arriving at my place. The same thing more or less happened with the AEC.
: Carle Gregory
: sound of that starting made me think of Stan Butler in On the Buses
: Carle Gregory
: once had a 1418 Benz start up like this problem was no air in the tank to stop it, ended up having to stall it
: James Webb
: Yer that's right, they used the exhaust brake for shutoff iirc.
: Feral Pigeon
: James Webb but 1419's didn't, but after 39 years since I last drove one, I can't remember how you shut down a 1419 Benz. ��
: James Webb
: I've only driven 1418 and 1924 Benzes.
: John Lidstone now that's better :) with Autovac rather than 'gravity tank' too
: Norman Julian
: She looks really good from the front.

Brian Blunt
: Fake wheel nut covers. Feral Pigeon would not approve
: Feral Pigeon
: Brian Blunt that has already been bought to Feral Pigeon's attention. ��
: Brian Blunt
: Looking at the other photos, Brian now realises they are not genuine Leyland covers.
: Double demerits for that.
: Norman Julian
: Wait till you see the next lot of photos Brian you will have a laugh.
: Brian Blunt
: I take bus preservation seriously, despite the foibles of some commentators
: Norman Julian
: Did I miss something!
: Feral Pigeon
: Norman Julian probably the long running "discussion" with some misguided members of the SBM fitting insipid wheel embellishments to the Leyland buses because in their opinion, "they look nice".
: This is disregarding the fact the these wheel embellishments were never fitted to these buses while in government service.
: A Museum should present its' exhibits in an authentic way, if it is to be taken seriously.
: Norman Julian
: Norman Julian Yep! I agree!
: Charles Shipway Gentlemen for me this evidence of history in the making and am waiting to see more videos as time goes by till we witness the finished product
: Adam Woodwards
: You'd think they would paint the tow truck orange, or it should really be White Heavy Haulage.

Craig Parkinson
: That diff is just about stuffed
: Feral Pigeon
: Maybe just a little worn (NOT), caused by a worm, apparently. ��
: Craig Parkinson
: It is as it's a solid bronze crown wheel and over time they deteriorate
: Steve Hardie
: It wouldnt be an American diff by a long shot.
: Craig Parkinson
: No
: Norman Julian
: Yes Craig you can see that it is worn but at the end of the day it is a spare.
: I didn't even know I was getting it, so it is a bonus whether it is just about stuffed or not.
: James Leonard Garrod
: This is definitely beyond redemption, I'd like a look at the worm.
: Feral Pigeon
: Norman Julian after looking at your photos, it is amazing how DGT original and unmolested 1635 is. ��
: Norman Julian
: Andrew Blacklock! With all the connections you seem to have are there any companies that can make new crown pinions for diffs?

Andrew Blacklock
: umm let me think about it
: James Leonard Garrod
: There is probably lots of these NOS in the UK, do you have any contacts in Bus organisations over there?
: Norman Julian
: There are no TD5s over there in England apparently so more than likely there aren't any.
: James Leonard Garrod
: Norman Julian , does this differential have a particular brand name/type? Is there another type of vehicle it may have been used in?
: Norman Julian
: Don't know. It will happen in time James. I only got it yesterday.
: Brian Hooper
: Scott Wilson has a good collection of diffs
: Norman Julian
: Brian Hooper.
: That diff centre weighs more than a P76 engine.
: Brian Hooper
: Has a heap in a bus and 8 in the grass near the white d/d
: Norman Julian
: Someone will know hopefully.

Norms Restoration - 31 Seater Projects

Project 1939 Leyland DT5 [1635]

2017

December - Find - Arrival

A video of the first attempt to start engine in 5 years

On its way to my place

Video of the bus backing down the laneway

Video of the engine running in the lane