Norms Restoration - 31 Seater Projects & Leyland TD 5 Project

1939 Leyland TD5 [1635 DD]

2018

Body June

Norman Julian 2nd Jun
Well I must say that I am a little pleased at what I found when I took the hinge panel off.
There isn't much left of the hinges but the steel horizontal that holds the hinges has surface rust and a small hole. The aluminium panel has no visable corrosion but just that someone cut around the hinge for some reason.
I drilled the screws out and took what was left of the hinge off so I could take the panel off.
I can now find some original hinges and retap where the old screws were and put new brass screws in.
For some reason they originally used steel screws so after 80 years they never had a hope in hell of coming out.
By the way the AEC panel was completely rusted out but the hinges survived and the same aluminium panel had corrosion holes everywhere, go figure.









Robert Bothwell
What a mess - looks like a lot of work needed here.
Norman Julian 2nd Jun
Norman Julian
You can see the rust hole just to the left of where the hinge sits.
Norman Julian 2nd Jun
Norman Julian
This is a solid piece of steel where 3 holes have been tapped out for the hinge.
Norman Julian 2nd Jun
Norman Julian
This is all that is left of the original hinge.
Norman Julian
This is what the hinge is supposed to look like.
Norman Julian 2nd Jun
Back window out.
Getting this down the ladder was scary.
Lucky half is gone with rust, it was so much lighter.
The window surround on the bus looks good so far.
I still have to get rid of the silicone first to be confident.





David Wilson
I've dealt with two or three like that in the past !
Norman Julian
You can tell me then what type of hinges were used.
David Wilson
same as 2547
Norman Julian
Bugger!
I knew you were going to say that!
Catherine Norman
You need to make up a scaffold Norm thats what we use I have a platform with handrail I stand on
Norman Julian
You need to go back and read the past posts Cath.
Catherine Norman
I dont mean a plank across two ladders you can get step ladders that are tall with platforms and safety rails that surround you on three sides.
Given the amount of resto work a scaffold with railings and lockable wheels is the best way.
Ladders and planks are too dangerous
Norman Julian
Scaffold can't get the slope of the front and back.
That is why I chose ladders.
Norman Julian
In your situation you have to provide a safe working enviroment to your workers/volunteers.
I am a mug in a shed.
I can choose to have what I want at my own risk.
Norman Julian 3rd Jun
I have nearly decided to make a whole new frame and skin.
The bottom of the skin because there is no frame left had a pair of hinges screwed on to it and being just thin aluminium it couldn't hold the weight of the door so it collapsed under the pressure.
The frame is just tired with so many holes in it.
Another set back is the rear glass must have originally been curved.
That accounts for the way the aluminium quad was put back in to help hold the glass.
The outside handle was just swinging because the tube inside joining one handle to the other was rusted out.
I will have to see if I can get a piece of glass from a wreck.







Garry Coxhead
Wow, that looks like a face on the right side!





Garry Coxhead
Wow, you've got some work in front of you!
Charles Shipway
Well now.
Norman you have lots of fun ahead of you I recon
Remember the old saying Have a problem for 30 seconds turn it into a problem solving project and in no time (Even if it takes a long time to finish ) the job will be satisfying and you and you alone made it work
I know mate I’m a bit slow !!!!
You have been traveling that road since you stated keep up the good work
Norman Julian
I was going to just patch and repair anything that needed doing but on my very first job I have broken that cause.
I can't really save anything on this door.
It is completely unworkable.
Charles Shipway
Hey Norman look at it this way.
YOUR back window will be the best of the best not just any window A lot of us are backing you !!!
Norman Julian
You know exactly what to say Charles.
Norman Julian 3rd Jun

Norman Julian
If you have a look down one side of this photo you can see the curve in the frame.
The glass is flat so you can also see why the window bars are built up to allow for the quad running down either side.
You would have to be unlucky to have glass up that high broken.
Norman julian
I have just been reliably informed that the glass isn't curved.
Charles Shipway
Very good to hear Norman
Norman Julian 4th Jun
I have taken the rear emergency door apart and now have a better understanding of how it was done initially.
I also pulled off all the panels below the door frame to have a good look around and it certainly has survived better than say the Leyland frog I have here.
Here's to spending its retirement in the country.








Norman Julian
Pot shot holes, I'm thinking.

Norman Julian
This panel will be coming off because the frame has a curve in it which isn't suppose to be there.

David Wilson
no drainage in the bottom rail of the door at all.
Aluminium skin sets up corrosion as well
Norman Julian 7th Jun
I picked up the new rear emergency door frame I had folded up yesterday.
They got the measurements near enough to perfect.
I have to weld 5mm solid plating inside at various positions for machine screws to hold things like the hinges and stays that are no longer there.
There is the panic bolt handle and bars for actually opening it.
If it wasn't reinforced then 1.2mm thick steel wouldn't be strong enough and after a while the threads would strip.
I had to do the same thing with the AEC rear emergency door.
After all the reinforcing is done then the top cap can go on and be spot welded in position.
Yes I have used gal.




Urs Mueller
You are doing a good job.
Its a pleasure to follow it!
Norman Julian
Thanks Urs!
Charles Shipway
Well your underway Norman looking forward to see the finished job hung and working
Graeme Knappick
The old one might go into my collection (?) ��
Norman Julian
Why would you want a rusty, crusty old piece of emergency door Graeme Knappick
Graeme Knappick
Norman Julian probably because I'm a bit strange. ��
Norman Julian
Graeme Knappick A bit . . .
Brian Blunt
Give him a job cleaning up your shed
Graeme Knappick
Brian Blunt hey?
Norman Julian
Graeme "Steptoe" Knappick! LOL
Graeme Knappick
Norman Julian yes the place is stating to look like that.
Norman Julian
You have seen my place!
I'm a fine one to talk. LOL
Norman Julian 10 Jun
Rusty Ian Holton
spewin,,
Ben Summers
Rust! The cancer of old vehicles.
Mark Spencer
Yeah.
You better believe it!
Ben Summers
I know it too.
I have a Morris Minor that needed rust surgery nearly three years ago.
Norman Julian
That's not rust Ben that's just cost cutting by the then Transport Dept.
Norman Julian 11th Jun
This is the top rear curved section panel.
I wanted to take it off for a couple of reasons like to repair the dent and to find out why the edge where it and the next panel it overlaps was bent inwards.
Anyway, that looks like a minor problem but what does concern me is all the bullet holes I have seen so far.
This panel has one and there was such a good job done concealing it that I didn't notice it till I took the panel off. The frame work thus far is very encouraging with only the crusty dried surface rust mixed with old primer.
That is all I am taking off for now for a while till I catch up with the repairs needed to the emergency door and desto number box.





Chris Dempsey
So will see you fives years time when the TD5 finished Norm
Norman Julian 11th Jun
Made a start on the new emergency exit door.





Charles Shipway
Norman good to know you are up and running on the exit door keep us all up to date please ?
Norman Julian 12th Jun
First stage done.
Second will be to curf the side pieces to the same angle as the original.
Then place 5mm steel inside the tubing to take the panic bar bolts and hinges.
Then a frame inside the frame to take the glass. Because the frame is curved and the glass is not I will weld an angle piece inside for the glass to sit and seal against.
Lastly when I am happy I will get the capping spot welded back on then the aluminium skin can be remade to suit.
The only thing I'm not sure of at the moment is how the hinge sits on this frame.
Norman Julian 14 Jun
Nearly a whole day was spent on these handles and getting them to work again after a long time probably.
The square spindle that goes from one handle through the door and attaches to the other was rusted out as you can see in one photo.
I had to drill out of one handle what was left of the spindle and then weld another length of square spindle on to the other handle so it can go through the door and connect up to the other handle.
Now they can open the door from inside and out.
I left a little on the spindle to allow for the front face and aluminium skin to go on and then I will cut to size. There is a hole in the shoulder of the inside handle and a hole in the spindle for a split pin to hold it all in position







Garry Coxhead
Great work
Norman Julian
Thanks Garry!
David Wilson
just those darn hinges to sort out !
Stuart Brown
Very impressive work Norman.
Norman Julian 24 Jun
I'm back into today after a week away.
Because most of the original hinges were rusted completely away along with most of the bottom part of the window frame as you would have seen in previous posts, I thought about using the hinges off the Leyland frog I have here.
These hinges are themselves in poor state but because I have been told new ones are rare as hens teeth I have decided to see if I could salvage these.
The pins are rusted solid so getting the 2 leafs to move can barely only be done with a lump hammer.
I did get them to budge so a glimmer of hope is in site.
I managed to get them sort of straight again after the Leyland being attacked by a bachhoe and doing a lot of damage to the back end so I will work on that later.
What I'm going to do first is to soak them in a special bath for a few days so as to clean off and kill the rust.
The next is to bath them in sump oil to help loosen up the pin.
I'm pretty confident this will work because I have done it before.
Once this is done I can dress them up and make them look new again.






Brian Blunt
Diesel might penetrate better than sump oil, molasses is another good old wives treatment for rust removal
Stuart Brown
I would have thought you would have built yourself a little citrus or molasses tank.... Very useful and cheap to set up.
Make short work of these.
Norman Julian
Everyone has their own way of doing things Stuart.
This is mine.
Stuart Brown
Not criticising your method... Just saying you might like to add to it with another cheap useful tool....
Norman Julian
I know about Molasses, diesel, citrus etc etc.
I already have what I have already said so that is why I'm using what I'm using.
Stuart Brown
Do need to set the molasses up a long way from your nose...
Norman Julian
I appreciate the advice from you and Brian.
Charles Shipway
Norman another job being carried out that is stirring the pot you could say ?
David Wilson
drill them out on the drill press if they won't budge.
They are only mild steel
Lee Hall
apple cider vinegar works good to remove rust.
Anton Frank
Remember that can of Bolt Off you gave me years ago Norm.
Sure wish you had given me more then one can ��
Norman Julian
Is that what happened to that.
I must have been very generous that day
Anton Frank
You call one can generous ����������
Norman Julian
One bloody can more than I have.
LOL
Anton Frank
That's Had Norm ��
Norman Julian
I might end up doing what David Wilson suggested and take the pin out.
It will be rusty and I will find a galvanised bolt and cut it down to fit and hopefully leave some thread on the end, place a nut on and weld it in position.
David Wilson
stainless coachbolts might be the go.
Catherine Norman
I have one of these missing on Regal 3416 not sure where I am going to find one either
Norman Julian
Be resourceful I have to be!
Norman Julian 26th Jun
Amazing what a difference spending a bit of time on something can make.
I decided to take the pins out and replace them.
Believe or not this hinge had rust craters in them.
They were too deep to sand out so I filled them with weld.
About a 3rd of the hinge is seen when it is folded on itself so as you can see in 2 photos you can see the rust craters on the pin end and the next shot the holes are filled and sanded flat.
Lucky these hinges have plenty of meat on them.
They also look like they have been cut with a blunt guillotine.
Having a really good look at these hinges and the way they were made if you told me they were made "in house" I wouldn't argue.






Chris Dempsey
Nothing like giving your hinge a good rub hey Norm
Norman Julian
The hinge in the top photo has a face plate on the top leaf.
It helps deflect weather I suspect and protect the hinge.
Not sure what the TD5 hinges were like but they are a little smaller then these.
Charles Shipway
Coming along well.
Norman
Last updated
June 2018
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