Norms Restoration - 31 Seater Projects & Leyland TD 5 Project

1939 Leyland TD5 [1635 DD]

2019

Body June

Norman Julian 11 Jun
I have almost talked myself into soldering the ends of this panel to the frame because of the unevenness and rough way of welding the horizontal door frame to the vertical pillar.
Doesn't allow for a flat ended panel to sit properly.
It will look better and because it is steel and not aluminium I can do it.
If by any chance it has to come out in the future you just heat up and melt the solder and the panel will come out. This will save making folded ends.
Norman Julian 15 Jun
I changed my mind about soldering the ends of this panel onto the window frame.
After some good advice I made the ends for it.
Firstly a template had to be made.
Was a little tricky because of the angles and it has to slope back with the angle of the frame.
Here is a cardboard template and was reproduced in metal.
I carefully welded them on from the underneath side and then soldered them from the top side to seal them.




Robert Stevenson
Great work as usual Norm.
You have more talent in your left pinky than I have total.
Norman Julian
If someone has a brain, 2 hands and 2 feet then anyone can do it Robert.
Robert Stevenson
Norman Julian I know so many people that have a brain, but are hard pressed walking and chewing gum at the same time.
Its common sense that is sadly lacking these days.
I would actually have a go at brain surgery.
I know I have the required tools in my shed.
There will be a book written about it, so there would be a procedure to follow.
The anaesthesia would be a problem.
But there is no way I would guarantee the survival of the patient.
Norman Julian 19th Jun
Because the weather is basically crap I have been looking at what I'm going to do next on this project.
I have studdied this photo of the extensive rust between floors.
You can see clearly that the bottom floor isn't connected to the top.
I used to think that this was a miracle that the bus still is in one piece but after studying it I think it is deliberate.
The top and bottom decks are braced together by a series of Gusset plates.
The frames are not connected at all. The first and 4th pictures show clearly that.
It makes perfect sence why it was done that way.
Firstly the bottom deck was built then the floor went down then the top deck was lowered onto it and the gussets were attached to the pillers of the top deck and being triangular shaped the other side was screwed to the timber floor. This was done for obvious reasons.
If the bus ran under a low bridge or something the top deck would be damaged and the worst thing that might happen is damage the frame and sheer off some of the gussets and wall sheeting.
Having the whole upper frame welded to the bottom by the frame pillars would possibly destroy the whole bus.
If you look at the picture of the framed decker you can clearly see the gap between decks on the side wall pillars.

Norman Julian
In this shot you can see what looks like a gusset on the closet pillar. It is mostly rusted away but you get the picture.
David Wilson
A weakness in the design of these old things I think.Of course when they were in regular service, the friction of every day use dried them out and kept rust at bay.Plenty of good quality red lead helped also !
Norman Julian
I only wish when I was still working at Grace Bros years ago
I had bought those 20 odd cans of leaded primer.
When they got rid of all their hardware they discounted paint for $5.00 a 4 litre.
I bought 1 only.
You know you can still buy leaded paint in Scotland.



Graham Inskip
Would also make sense that they could be manufactured as two separate units then the top deck lifted into place?
Wonder if anyone has any knowledge if this was the case?
Norman Julian
Because there are very few pictures of buses being built and the builders are more then likely long retired or gone it's hard to know what actually went on, but if I was building a bus for long term that is what I would do.
Graham Inskip
Norman Julian yes its unfortunate we didn't have more photographic records of building the double deckers, just though there may be someone out there that worked at Chullora Workshops that might have a bit of insight into the construction techniques?
Carle Gregory
how thick is the floor there Norm?
Norman Julian
It would be 7/8" Carl or 22mm
Norman Julian 27 Jun
I originally said from the start that I was going to just do a basic overhaul on this bus.
I wasn't going to put the effort into it like the AEC.
There are things though that I have to do and impossible to ignore.
I was told that there was very little rust, I knew inside that it isn't known until you take the skin off.
It doesn't surprise me at all how much there is because of its age.
Anyway, the very first panel I took off is one of those that I think I will replace because of dents and funny enough bullet holes as can be seen.
This will be the first panel I replace when the new beading machine arrives.
This panel is the very top panel under the emergency door that surrounds the route number box.
Where the back panels go the frame basically doesn't have any primer on the frame anymore. Long since gone.
It has a crusty coat of surface rust but the steel underneath is fine.
With the AEC I took all of the rust off but with this bus I will just clean off all the loose dirt and paint rust converter on and then when it does its chemical conversion, 2 coats of metal primer will be added.
The bus is 80 years old and the frame is still good so this protection is all it needs.






Gregor Neil Robertson
Useful description ... the bus clearly hasn’t spent much of its life in wet or humid conditions, certainly what we can see of the wooden framing and steel appears sound.
That’s lucky.
Here in Scotland the wet climate causes havoc with the mix of steel and wood.
Robert Stevenson
Looks like a nice simple one to start with.
Bead roller is on my list of things to buy.
Its avery long list I have though.
Need a shed a little like yours to start with.
But maybe not as high.
Norman Julian
If I didn't have a decker my shed wouldn't be so high either.
Gregor Neil Robertson
Take care up that ladder!
Norman Julian I hope so Gregor.
Norman Julian 29 Jun
Not bad for 80 years old.
I'm glad I'm stripping off the skin.
The panels are too dented.
The so called bumper will be replaced.







Dennis Boros
You’ve probably mentioned this in one of your other posts, but do you intend to keep the patina of the dented panels or replace them all with new panels?
Norman Julian
Dennis Boros
my idea of patina is different to most.
LOL
Dennis Boros
Norman Julian there’s always a very fine line between patina and looking like scrap.
Norman Julian
Dennis Boros there is more than just dented panels to consider.
There are numerous bullet holes that were just mastic filled and there are lots of oversized pop rivet holes.
Dennis Boros
Norman Julian With the bullet holes I’m sure that this bus has an incredible story.
But you’re right about the oversized rivet holes.
I remember many years ago removing the panels of a Mk1 Leopard.
In some places the frames were worse than Swiss cheese, the panels held on by large-headed fibreglass rivets!
Norman Julian
Dennis Boros Answering your question properly I do want to save as many of the panels as I can.
Most of the upper panels look OK by most of the lower ones look ordinary and probably will be replaced.
Chris Dempsey
Stripping off the skin I thought it was a bus not a banana Norm
Last updated
June 2019
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