31 Seater Projects & Leyland TD 5 - Norms Buses - Monthly activity

Norman Julian 1 Feb
: I'm lending some assistance in getting this area dried up quickly so I can blow the remnants of what rust and junk is leftover out before putting back together.
: These 2 chambers are basically water reservoirs to keep the cylinders cool.
: This blue dish is just from the first bank of 3 cylinders.
: I reckon this crap takes the place of about 25% of the water level, also there is a buildup around the cylinders themselves.
: This wouldn't help trying to keep the engine cool.
: The good news is that there was a clear pool of water in this area which means there are no leaks.
: This by the way is normal.
: Most of this crap isn't from the engine itself, rather the water that was put into over a very long time.

Robert Stevenson
: Could do with a very long hot chemically filled bath.
: But lots of poking and prodding with different shaped bits of wire will bring some results.
: That stuff should fizz up nicely with some phosphoric acid.
: That might actually be an idea.
: Seal the water passages back up as good as possible and fill it with phosphoric acid.
: It will eat up all of the crud and loosen up some more.
: It wont hurt the block itself either.
: Warming it up a bit before you pour it in will speed up the action.
: 15 or 20 litre drums arent that pricey from chemical companies.
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: Robert Stevenson interesting solution.
: Presumably you wouldn�t just add the acid in normal flushing as it would damage rubber hoses and possibly the radiator fins?
: I always use proprietary Rad Flush once or twice every 2 or 3 years.
: Rob Otoole
: How about some draino

Norman Julian 2 Feb
: This week I hope to have a fully pulled apart and reassembled chemically cleaned head.
: Several engine parts will be bead blasted and some will be polished.
: I hope to have the broken piece of the head sorted out and there will be some new head bolts machined to size and fit. I have to make new gaskets for quite a few parts.
: I cleaned and got rid of a lot of internal buildup of carbon/rust inside of a few cast bits.
: Most of the head bolts I will be reusing but some will need replacing.
: I just need the head gasket and the injector pump/injectors themselves need servicing.

Phil Steele
: Lookin' good ,Norm
: Andrew Blacklock
: Your not going to finally use the sand blast cabinet?
: Norman Julian
: Andrew Blacklock No!
: Not yet.
: Andrew Blacklock
: It�s got to loose its virginity soon lol
: Norman Julian
: I have to get into the groove to do that Andrew Blacklock
: John Clarke
: Norman Julian As it were!
: David Wilson
: head gasket waiting for you Norm
: Norman Julian
: David Wilson yeah, thanks.
: Norman Julian
: I'm thinking while I'm in the engineering mood I might start on the 31 seaters engine Wilson David.
: The radiator brackets look like they have to be surgery removed.
: The engine just needs a few things done to it, like fan belts because there aren't any and do the 2 oil filters up like the decker.
: Loving this job at the moment.
: Robert Stevenson
: Not checking the valve seats or doing a bit f valve laooing, or did I miss that bit?
: Norman Julian
: I will talk to the mechanic about it when I drop it off.

Norman Julian 3 Feb
: Today was a mixed bag.
: I cleaned 4 major parts to do with water flow.
: One part I don't have any idea what it does.
: The amount of corrosion is pretty concerning.
: Lucky these and other parts are made very thick walled.
: I wasn't really going to but I will take the water pump out.
: Mainly to check it out.
: When this bus left the dept I think mechanically it would have been OK, but sitting around for many a year with water sitting has done a fair bit of damage reducing the life of the engine.
: Water isn't the only problem.
: Fuel and oil can be as bad.

Paul Morton
: What did you clean that up with Norman?
: Norman Julian
: Paul Morton wire brush on an angle grinder and a hand wire brush, and plenty of cleaning.
: Stephen Rooke
: Norman where are you obtaining your gaskets from? The engine in my OPS1 (8.7 litre) looks identical.
: Norman Julian
: Stephen Rooke.
: Some of the gaskets are OK.
: Others I am making myself as the need arises.
: The AEC gaskets were mainly cork.
: I have cork and composite material that I use.
: Norman Julian
: Stephen Rooke I would like to see your bus.
: Should put it up or if you don't wish to that's OK.
: Stephen Rooke
: l posted photos on this page 2 years ago so lost is the archives.
: Here they are again.
: Fantastic work you are doing and highly motivating for myself.
: I�ve got my radiator apart wondering what to do �

Ben Summers That would have been taken when the chassis were on their way to Melbourne to be bodied by Martin and King, I think.
: Stephen Rooke
: Ben you could be correct.
: As far as l know M&MTB Leylands were either Preston or Commeng bodies, so could these be Sydney buses?
: I trying to find the web site where l got the photo from.
: Ben Summers
: They are definitely MMTB buses Stephen however, they were sent to Martin and King before entering service in Melbourne.
: Warren Brown
: Norman - I did the same on an old Land Rover - but I bought a Karcher steam cleaner from Bunnings and wow!!! It�s fantastic!!!!!

Norman Julian 5 Feb
: Today now that I have cleaned out the bulk of the rubbish that has built up over the years and it has dried up pretty well, I can see that some of the walls of the block are a real worry.
: For those that are unsure of how it all works, the block which is cast in one go has several moulds placed together and molten steel is poured in to it to make a casting.
: After it cools engineers work on it to turn it into a working engine.
: There are steel sleeves pressed into each cylinder and pistons with various types of rings go into these cylinders.
: The dilemma here is that the corrosion could very well go all the way through the casting and now starting to effect the steel sleeve.
: Of course this is just hearsay but I'm looking at it and one doesn't know.
: When I did the same thing with the AEC the cylinders had a bigger gap between each cylinder and I could inspect all the way round with an inspection camera.
: That engine is better in this area.
: I think in this case I wont try and get anymore build up off the walls off the cylinders and hope she lasts for a while yet.
: Just as well that this isn't a high reving engine.
: It would just add extra load. If a few small holes have made their way through to the sleeve then if it is only small it should be OK.
: The only thing I can do now is slow down the degragation.

Cameron McFadyen
: Norm, it would be very unlikely.
: Though another good reason not to send any money on the fuel pump.
: Just put it back together and see how it goes.
: More than likely everything will be fine.
: Norman Julian
: Unlikely . . . which part?
: Cameron McFadyen
: Norman Julian that the corrosion goes through to the liners.
: Norman Julian
: Cameron McFadyen Yeah!
: I'm hoping so too!
: Norman Julian
: The best thing that people can do with one of these old girls if they are not using it for long periods of time is drain it.
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: Norman Julian but as you�ve pointed out, �normal� draining would leave water in the jackets lying possibly for years! Only by going to the lengths you have, could you hope to achieve a totally dried out block. This has been an interesting topic. I see in the top photo what looks like a crack. I hope it�s not! Apart from emission considerations, this may have been the reason for re-engining in the big London fleets. Although I�ve never heard of an older block splitting.
: Brian Blunt
: Gregor Neil Robertson most of these engines have drain plugs in the lowest points of the chamber, so as long as they are clear you should be able to drain out 99%+ of any coolant.
: Leaving the taps open afterwards would allow any remnants to evaporate.
: Using a good anti-corrosive coolant should limit further future damage.
: Norman Julian
: Brian Blunt no engine I have seen so far has a tap.
: They are a square head plug and both the AEC and this one have defeated me.
: Both are rounded over.
: That didn't help the course.
: Brian Blunt
: Norman Julian okay, some may have plugs rather than taps.
: Perhaps drill the plugs and thread them to fit taps?
: I can�t remember what size they are.
: Norman Julian
: Brian Blunt no can do.
: Maybe if the engine is out but not easy in
: Brian Blunt
: This is the petrol version of the same engine which we have. There is a tap just behind the timing case on the other side.

Norman Julian 6 Feb
: This is the water pump.
: I was a bit hesitant about taking it out but I'm glad I did.
: The pipe coming out the side was about half blocked with a wall of rust and crap.
: I was going to take a photo but when I put it on the bench I must have done it too heavy handed and it collapsed.
: I don't know of too many vehicles that have there pump mounted on the rear of the engine.
: It took me a half an hour to take it out and I'm sure if you were familiar with it you would have done it in half the time.
: 4 bolts and she is out.
: I will give it a good clean and listen to how the bearings sound.
: The inlet pipe will get a good clean out.

Norman Julian 6 Feb
: I ended up getting off the locking pin which is a keyway bolt as well.
: Getting that off though I still hit a wall.
: The rectangular plate is pressed on and I don't have a puller to get it off.
: The other end has a brass drive flange which looks like it unscrews but not sure about that.
: I did use little effort to see if it would unscrew but no luck there.
: I undid the 4 nuts you can see in the picture and I could just make out what looks like a bearing.
: The shaft on this wasn't spinning all that well so I just had enough room to squirt some spray grease in the small gap between the plate that was bolted down and that freed up the shaft and it was spinning quite well.
: I noticed a dark coloured goo coming out through the side of the plate after spraying the grease.
: I think it is rusty inside and the grease I sprayed in has mixed with that and started coming out.

Norman Julian 6 Feb
: Here it is pulled apart.
: The main body which contains the impeller is pressed together in the factory and it isn't easy to pull apart so I will leave that alone.
: The impeller is intact because I can see through the side pipe inlet.
: With the top part of the body, I can't take it fully apart either There is a stubborn bolt that won't come out which will expose the bearing.
: I am happy though I went this far with it.
: I can clean it up and most of the scale inside is gone and the impeller is good.
: You can see all the rubbish that was inside

Jim Sharp
: Why is it painted that rusty colour.
: Lol
: Norman Julian
: I wondered that myself!
: Robert Stevenson
: Just a little bit of moisture mixed in,
: Have seen them worse than that and still working reasonably well.
: Norman Julian
: Yeah but moisture gets the better of steel eventually.
: I will clean it up and check the bearing out.
: If it is reasonable I will repack it and listen to it again.
: It was a little rattley, but that could because of the very hard and dry grease.

Norman Julian 9 Feb
: I hope you can follow this.
: If you can't I apoligise.
: Following up on the previous post.
: You can see here that half rounded bracket holds the body of the waterpump to the engine by way of the bolt holes.
: Now the slot or channel in the body of the pump ligns up with the nipple.
: There is a hole in the pump body that allows the grease to enter inside where all the workings are.
: The central part of the shaft there has another round piece that has a hole in it as well.
: On either side of that piece is a bearing.
: One front and one back of the unit.
: The piece in the middle is only about 3mm thick.
: Why it is there at all you can only wonder but maybe to keep the bearings from moving down the shaft is my guess.
: This grease nipple is designed to keep the bearings always greased up.
: With what I said the other day, when I opened it up the grease was hard and yellow.
: It took a little while to get it out.
: I even had everything sitting in degreaser overnight to desolve what was there.
: The last photo here you can see the other side of the bracket that holds the nipple.
: You can also see a trail of green grease on either side.
: I think someone tried to grease this in recent times but it went nowhere and was forced out the sides.
: Inside the workings themselves when I opened it up didn't have much keeping it lubed, also the plate with the screws on one end didn't have a gasket.
: I think moisture got in.
: You would have seen the shot with the rusty looking bearing.

Norman Julian 9 Feb
: This is for those that are not sure how the grease nipples on these buses actually work.
: I have cleaned all these things up so you can see it better.
: To start with the nipple itself is brass and comes up really well with a good clean and buff.
: This particular one is for the waterpump.
: This nozzle has the right fitting to slide on the hexagon shaped nipple.
: The other end will go onto a conventional grease gun that you can buy anywhere.
: By the way you can still buy these grease nozzles.
: When the nozzle is in place it sits on a little ball that is spring loaded and when pressure of the grease is forced out of the gun the ball is pressed down and lets the grease in under pressure.
: Now these nipples are everywhere on these buses right up to and including AEC and Leyland underfloors.

Bryce Pender
: I think they are call Alemite Grease Fittings.
: Can't seem to find them in NZ, where did you get yours from?
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: Bryce Pender or are they called Tecalemit (not sure of spelling)
: Andrew Blacklock
: I think Blackwoods sell them and seen them in ebay
: Calum Melrose
: They are everywhere.
: Surprised to see them on what looks like the big end on a connecting rod.
: You would need to remove the sump to service these.
: Guessing no cross drilled crank shaft
: Norman Julian
: Did you read all the posts mate.
: This is a bracket that holds the water pump on the engine.
: Calum Melrose
: Norman Julian ta that makes more sense.
: You never know with the old things.
: Specially with what looked like white metal shell.
: Guessing it's just one alloy casting
: Robert Stevenson
: Look like the grease nipples on my lathe.
: Must get me a fitting for them.
: Never seen them before.
: Thought they were something unobtainable.
: Will save me opening it up to throw the grease around
: Andrew Blacklock
: Robert Stevenson blackwoods sell the fitting
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: Thanks Norman - after reading the thread all is clear.
: It looks like a good system. Conventional nipples are hit or miss and who cares!
: In my experience only half of the joints I try to grease ever get grease at the right points of the surfaces.
: So I often alternate grease with a gun containing gear oil
: Messy but the oil does get right round the joints (and everywhere - so requires a good clean up after oiling)

Jim Sharp
: Use basso don't use wet and dry
: Norman Julian
: Jim Sharp whats that?
: Norman Julian
: Not brasso?
: Jim Sharp
: Norman Julian bugger.
: Just had my hip done still in hospital.
: I think the drugs are getting the better of my spelling.
: Jim Sharp
: Brasso
: Norman Julian
: Jim Sharp I feel for you mate.
: Had that done 3 times
: Jim Sharp
: Norman Julian had it done Wednesday and should have been home by now but a tooth that had been ok flared up during the night.
: Now I have to stay until it clears up.
: Jim Sharp
: Common brass cleaner.
: It is abrasive.
: Wet and dry will leave fine scratches
: Norman Julian
: Jim Sharp Ah! I think the slight scratches will need a little more than that but I will try it first with some steel wool.
: Thanks mate.
: Jim Sharp
: Norman Julian don't.
: Go through the hardening
: Jim Sharp
: You need to do it in a lathe so you don't create a oatch

Jim Sharp
: Brake cleaner might do it.
: Robert Bothwell
: I don't even know what it is!
: Norman Julian
: Robert Bothwell fuel injection pump. The carburetor of a diesel engine.
: Norman Julian This is one thing that has to be meticulously clean inside. It hasn't been serviced for over 60 years. It will need attention.
: Jim Sharp
: Norman Julian if it was still wet with fuel it will probably only need a clean
: Cameron McFadyen
: It was running before you pulled it apart though? Just be careful cleaning the shit out of everything, you might end up rebuilding everything too.
: Sometimes better left and running fuel conditioner like Fuel Doctor through it when its running.
: Jim Sharp
: Cameron McFadyen good advice.
: Scott Wilson
: Ken is the MAN !

Donald Behan
: CAV BPE pumps are pretty indistructable, as long as the rack moves freely I wouldn't worry too much.
: As suggested use a fuel treatment like fuel doctor or Moreys, that's what I do with mine
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: I�ve always had pumps rebuilt by specialists.
: Never dared to DIY.
: They have specialist gear and experience.
: It is expensive though.
: Catherine Norman
: FRom what I know about working on our AEC Regal pump do not pull it apart as the boys says just run cleaner through it. They can be a bugger to get running right again if you get things wrong not to mention expensive up to $1200 to replace if you can find one.
: Catherine Norman
: PS Norm we are still trying to get the Regal pump going again at the moment
: Norman Julian
: Thanks for your comments everyone.
: Much appreciated.
: Clynton Brown
: 4 things I don�t do on engines- injectors, injector pumps, carbies and magnetos.
: Take it to a shop they will soon tell you what the go is
: Garry Newton
: Norman Julian
: Hey Garry why don't you come for a drive and clean it for me.
: LOL
: Andrew Blacklock
: Norman Julian I would be pleased to have Gary in my workshop any day.
: He is a A1 tradesmen.... sorry better than that a craftsman.
: Garry Newton
: Norman Julian Norm would you like a calibration machine for checking and adjusting these pumps?
: It's about 2 foot wide 4foot long and about 5foot high and 3phase.
: Norman Julian
: Garry Newton hehehehehehehehe
: Norman Julian
: For a while I thought you were serious.
: Garry Newton
: Norman Julian Yes I am serious.
: Norman Julian
: I tried to give it to the Sydney Bus Museum, but they already have one.
: Looking at the pump with the element cover off, you could clean it with some diesel or kerosene, make sure you drain the cleaning fluid out of the sump.
: Make sure you block off or cap all of the injector and fuel inlet and outlets before cleaning.
: The section we are looking at only has oil splash for lubrication.
: Norman Julian
: I went to a place today and I get the feeling they are reluctant in doing just what I want.
: Seems that taking it completely apart is the only way of doing it properly.
: We are talking big bucks.
: He did suggest I talk to the owner and see what he says.
: He is old school.
: He did say that pumps that are not serviced could have water in it.

Norman Julian 14th Feb
: Time for a change.
: A few weeks ago as you know I got the remainder of the water out of the block and I allowed it to thoroughly dry out. Today with the combination of the blower and the vac (to keep some of the dust down) I got most of the loose rust and dirt out.
: I should have emptied the vac out before I started so I can't give you an accurate amount but this ice cream container is 2 litres.
: It is about 75% full.
: I reckon it would have been close to full if I had gathered it all.
: Getting to the off side of the engine isn't possible but the blower could get between the piston ports and the dust was blowing out through the top of the block like a steam engine.
: I have been on it for about an hr and there still was a little coming out with the occasional clump.

Andrew Blacklock
: So what did they do to the head?
: Norman Julian
: Andrew Blacklock special type of wash
: Marcus Allaway
: Norman Julian try a bath of white vinegar $1.20 for 2 Ltrs in coles do 1/4 of it with H2O 3 to 4 days soak,,, as doing a radiator now to try to clear of small flakes blocking core other wize its of to Woods
: Marcus Allaway
: Norman Julian I always run fly wire on the top hose of radiator tank even after hot tanking a block and heads as still get little flakes that can block a core
: Rick Gotley
: Its meant to be dropped in a mild acid Bath after being stripped down totally , thats what we did at Willoughby Dpt with all Heads
: Norman Julian
: Rick Gotley it has copper and brass bushes. They said they could be damaged by corrosion .
: You didn't do this type of technology when you were working.
: That's why they suggested a hot wash.

Norman Julian
: The other thing was the cost to strip it down completely.
: Very expensive.
: Rick Gotley
: The Acid was that mild it didnt sting my skin at all Norm , but it still cleaned up the head very well
: Norman Julian
: Rick Gotley the depts are geared up to do this type of thing.
: I could have put it in an acid bath but after his warning I err on the side of caution.
: Andrew Blacklock
: Ok those hat washers are good but you still need to put some effort into the cleaning.
: I have used the grease eater first then the hot was here hen back again for another go of both before.
: Ask Laurie about his Leyland air cleaners lol
: Norman Julian The inside isn't too bad now.
: It just has a lot of crud around the outside.

Robert Stevenson
: The non ferrous certainly may have been damaged even in a mild acidic solution.
: With heat, it makes it work a lot harsher.
: With straight cast bits, I used to have access to a good hot washer, but never used it.
: Was told that I could whenever I needed to.
: They would put anything in on a Friday arvo, and would pull it out on the Monday after a good cooking so to speak. Those that did use it said that everything looked like new castings when they did it.
: I had an LS block and heads cleaned up at the local machine shop.
: I thought they would have come back better than they did too.
: Seems they only pressure washed them, something I could have done myself, but with the water restrictions, Im sure someone would have got their nose out of joint.
: But he did a skim on the heads, and perhaps a little on the block as well, something that was beyond my little workshop.
: But given all that, it is increasingly hard to find people willing to do that extra bit to satisfy customers.
: The clumpy grease should have definitely gone, and no old oil anywhere.
: Norman Julian
: The price of stripping it right down was expensive.
: The inside now is cleaner but still oil in there.
: The outside still has old caked on oil and road grime.
: I will finish it by hand.
: Stuart Gale
: Norm I am repairing an old single cylinder diesel pump which seized after getting water down the piston..
: I have cleaned up the head and other stuff in apple cider vinegar after leaving it soak for a while.
: Other parts I have let soak in the parts washer for days then hit them with a brush before washing down and covering with lanox to protect them maybe you could split a 44 gal drum to turn into a soak tank if u dont have something similar already
: Rick Gotley
: Stuart Gale perfect !!! that will work , we soaked all heads for 24 hrs in a tank , next day we lifted them out an hit them with a Genie same as you
: Stuart Gale
: Rick Gotley main thing is to thoroughly dry with compressed air and coat with sonothing like lanotec / inox to prevent rust
: Norman Julian
: Rick Gotley I'd bet the genie wasn't very happy about about being hit.
: Was it still in the bottle when you did it.
: I'd bet your 3 wishes are history.
: By the way a gernie would have done a better job.
: Hehehehehehe
: Rick Gotley
: Norman Julian going to quick with my fat fast fingers Lol

Bryce Pender
: What mistakes? Not checking timing marks?
: Scott Wilson
: Tried to tell you how......��
: Andrew Blacklock
: Scott Wilson I did to
: Norman Julian
: Andrew Blacklock Scott Wilson. Didn't need to do that. This way is a lot easier. The manual I have here has the instructions and easier than I thought.
: Norman Julian Andrew Blacklock I admitted I made a mistake so I don't need I told you so
: Andrew Blacklock
: Norman Julian not having a go at you mate.
: It takes a real man to admit a mistake. So you got my respect.
: Norman Julian
: Andrew Blacklock I have thick skin. BASTARD. LOL
: Andrew Blacklock
: Norman Julian I wish we lived closer so I could help you with it
: Norman Julian
: You have enough to keep you occupied but thanks anyway!
: Norman Julian
: Can you hone with the piston still in it. The very tops of the cylinders have a few marks.
: Scott Wilson
: Norman Julian NO ! NO !
: Scott Wilson
: Norman Julian Leave them, no harm.
: Metal filings will go down to the rings.
: Leave the carbon marks too.
: Norman Julian
: Scott Wilson Roger that!!!!
: Cameron McFadyen
: A few reasons that wont work, first you need to get a good cross hatch pattern when you hone.
: The best way to do that is a super slow drill and move it in and out of the liner quickly while you hone.
: The other problem with it it that once you've honed a cylinder it needs to be washed out with hot soapy water to get rid of the carbide.
: Terry Williams
: Definitely no no.

Norman Julian 15 Feb
: Things are preceding nicely on the engine.
: By the way, thanks to all those who gave me their advice on the piston cylinders etc.
: I am now going to concentrate on the lower part of the engine.
: While the radiator is off I want to clean up the front part of the engine which means replacing the engine mount which is just a flat piece of rubber about 10mm thick wrapped half way round the cross member and the engine sits on it.
: You can see it in the middle of this picture on the cross member.
: I'm thinking that it is that hard now that there wouldn't be any cushioning at all.
: I also will be dropping the oil sump and I'd bet there will be some nasty surprises waiting there for me.
: The finned thing under the cross member is the oil cooler.
: That will be coming off as well.
: According to the service manual that has to be taken apart every 5000 miles and cleaned.
: It has a bypass inside of it so if the filter gets blocked the filter is bypassed.
: The cross member it self will be coming off but I'm having a few issues with that which I will explain another time.

Steve Hartnell
: i would lift the engine out to work on it.
: and the steering box whilst i had easy access.
: Norman Julian
: Steve Hartnell not happening buddy
: Steve Hartnell love the progress photo's keep them coming.
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: By Jove you�re a brave man.
: Any chance of paying a local young farm worker or handyman to help with these challenging jobs?
: I�m no rich man but if I can find young fellows to do the crawling around and heavy work I pay for the help.

Norman Julian 16 Feb
: Here I was thinking that the front engine mount on the AEC was strange, well it has nothing on this.
: The 2 bolts with the springs were easy to get off.
: I was even surprised that there wasn't much tension on the springs.
: The 2 bolts that are slightly bent are anyones guess.
: The rubber after I got it out feels fairly soft.
: The other thing that surprises me is the lack of any major corrosion under the rubber.
: Sometimes I throw caution to the wind.
: I was wondering how I was going to lift the front of the engine.
: The sump is made of cast alloy.
: In the end after serious discussion with myself I placed a steel square tube that was the same width as the sump and placed it on the jack and crossed my fingers.

Bryce Pender
: Damper duty?
: Carle Gregory
: that rubber looks like a bit of old conveyor belt, gee Norm this bus is definitely trying your skills will make the Leyland seem like childs play
: Norman Julian
: Carle Gregory actually it feels more like sponge rubber rather than solid stuff.
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: Carle Gregory agree about the rubber/cord belt.
: You wonder if that was factory spec.
: Carle Gregory
: yea seeing the cords made me think conveyor
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: An interesting arrangement.
: When you torque up the nuts in the spring bolts - how tight should they be?
: Looks like the springs were hardly functioning at all.
: Altogether ab ingenious arrangement.
: That tubular steel cross tube must be strong.
: Norman Julian
: Gregor Neil Robertson there are crown nuts holding it together so gauge on the hole for the split pins

Norman Julian
: I gambled that this would hold the weight without breaking the casting.
: Close to the front of the engine and full width.
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: Norman Julian think I�d have used a wood block too to spread the load.
: Can you relieve weight by hanging the engine block from above with straps from your engine hoist, just as an extra safety measure?
: Norman Julian
: Gregor Neil Robertson The engine hoist has a use but they are a thing that takes up a lot of space and can be in the way.
: All I needed to do here was to raise the engine around 20mm so as to get the rubber engine mount out.
: It is now sitting back on the crossmember.

Melissa Lutwyche
: Think you'll need to learn speak magpie, he looks like the type that would not want to learn English
: Stuart Gale
: the perfect apprentice Norman Julian one that can bring a welcome distraction when your in the middle of something turning to crap.
: I have a pair of wagtails and a pair of rens that keep me company outside
: Brian Blunt
: Give him some mince meat, you will have a friend for life
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: I assume part or all of the engines weight is now back on the tube crossmember to enable you to remove the sump? Can you devise an extra support just in case, if you�re planning on working under the block?
: !!! Guess we are all concerned for you!
: Carle Gregory
: i wonder if he will learn all the bad words ��
: Norman Julian
: Carle Gregory I don't swear!
: Marea Julian does though!��
: Carle Gregory
: i might have to check with Marea Julian at Easter ��

Norman Julian 18th Feb
: It was fun getting this thing off.
: No bolts in this area, all studs with nuts.
: Studs going in different directions and pipes that are not flexible means that you have to take things off that you don't want to and in a specific order.
: You can see the state of the filter.
: The oil that came from the sump was pretty good and not sludgy, though this filter was that dirty that the sump filter would have been working overtime.
: Tomorrow the sump will be coming out then the bottom end clean can happen.

Norman Julian 18th Feb
: Today I wanted to drain the oil from the sump.
: I noticed there was 2 drain plugs.
: I picked the front one because it is the lowest.
: Getting it off was no easy task.
: It has a internal square drive, around the same size as a 1/2" socket drive.
: I had to put a 2 metre bar on the end to budge it.
: It really amazes me why these are tightened up so tight.
: Once you start the thread it is so tight that no oil comes out till it is ready to drop.
: In this picture it has been cleaned up.
: After the engine mounting bolts, springs etc had a clean up you can see 2 different length bolts.
: Very annoying why this happens.
: Speaking of annoying, have a look at the picture of the brackets holding the oil cooler.
: One stud and nut and one nut are missing.
: Why someone didn't notice this long ago, is anyones guess.

Donald Behan
: Actually, unless I�m wrong the object you referred to as an oil cooler is the oil filter. It should have a felt element. It would help cool the oil with the fins too.
: Norman Julian
: Actually you are right.
: It is a filter and cooler in one!
: Donald Behan
: Norman Julian yes. Very clever actually.
: The regal three ones were smooth on the outside.
: I never cease to marvel at the old British buses and their durability.
: Norman Julian
: I partially stripped my Regal III engine but never noticed the oil filter
: Donald Behan
: Norman Julian does it actually have a filter.
: A lot of the government buses didn�t have filters as they recycled the engine oil and put it through a filtration machine.
: Not sure they did that in Sydney though.
: Norman Julian
: Donald Behan I remember years ago when the engine pan was taken off it had a mesh filter in it.
: Maybe that's all the 9.6 has.
: Norman Julian
: This engine has a mesh filter in the oil pan as well!
: Donald Behan
: Norman Julian it�s possible the AEC only had the mesh filter in the sump.
: The BCC regal�s all had the felt filter under the sump, but their 58/60�s royal tigers only had a centrifuge filter.
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: I wonder why two engine drain plugs.
: And missing stud due to laziness on part of the last fitter - or else he forgot to tighten it.
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: And are tge two brass square socket studs on chassis front for securing the radiator?
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: Norman Julian ahhh stupid of me!
: Just couldn�t work out it�s purpose! Thanks.

: Scott Wilson
: Just old rusty
: Shane Vanguard
: Corrosion
: Stuart Gale
: i reckon its just worn from old age..
: head bolts on the motor I am repairing at present is looking the same where they go into the head the pitting is probably caused by the friction from combustion over a number of years
: Norman Julian
: I will see if someone has any.
: This is 7/16" ww. I will see if I can get "5/8 A/F
: Calum Melrose
: Pitting from corrosion.
: I don't re use old fasteners. Certainly wouldn't reuse these
: Norman Julian
: WW is near impossible to get with this thread pitch.
: I'm getting new engine head bolts remade but only cause it is necessary.
: Robert Stevenson
: Given that they generally over engineered things back in those days, it would be likely that you wouldnt have too much of an issue re using them.
: If worse got to worse, you could spend some time filing and sanding away the corroded bits, have a look at the diameter that is left, then see what the torque is with a bolt that size.
: But that would be going to the extreme.

Norman Julian 19th Feb
: I didn't do the sump today but instead I cleaned the oil cooler.
: The filter element is brass or bronze and it was clogged.
: It had been repaired several times I'd say because of the amount of solder there was.
: The piece with the 2 pipes connects from the engine then to one side of the filter.
: The other side as you can see looks like it has a drain plug.
: I washed then wire brushed both of them.
: The one with the 2 pipes will need more attention.
: The 2 pipes are just steel and corrosion is evident.
: I will probably paint them black or something.
: The filter body itself is just a hollow cylinder that the filter mesh sits in.
: The broken fins on the bottom will spoil the look after it all goes back together so because the broken fins seem to be in the same spot and affects the same amount of fins (3) on both sides of the body, I thought about disguising them. I filed all 6 fins down and made them the same shape with a curve.
: It nearly looks factory.
: The last photo with the modified fins which are facing downwards is what you would see from in front of the bus.

Norman Julian 21 Feb
: Getting close to the finish of cleaning the majority of the engine parts.
: The air filter manifold and the oil filler were steamed washed for 2 days and then bead blasted.
: They came up well.
: I bought 2 new bolts even though I straightened the originals.
: The last photo is the majority of the parts that either had be reconditioned or thoroughly cleaned.
: A bit more cleaning to be done on the head and the sump will probably come off over the weekend.

Gregor Neil Robertson
: Take care lying down there and good luck with all those bolts.
: Hope they come off easily enough.
: Wear goggles or at least spec�s.
: Got a replacement gasket?
: Norman Julian
: Gregor Neil Robertson If you are talking about the sump.
: Spare gaskets are not available anymore.
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: Norman Julian so how will you deal with it?
: Perhaps the gasket will come off intact.
: Hope so!
: Norman Julian
: Gregor Neil Robertson I have to remake other gaskets but I will try to get it off in one piece
: Norman Julian
: Gregor Neil Robertson I think the poms relied too much on gaskets alone.
: The japs when they started to make cars relied on tried and proven technology.
: One thing that has proved to let things down have been gaskets.
: In time the japanese learned to use sealants as well as gaskets and that's why you don't see many oil leaks coming from gasket/sealants combined.

Robert Stevenson
: Work of art almost
: Bryce Pender
: The correct answer is Essential work is to do it right first time.
: Carle Gregory
: best laid plans of mice and men
: Catherine Norman
: It would bug you Norm if you left it lol ��
: Charles Shipway
: Well said Catherine Norman I do understand Norms original strategy I�m inclined to think thoughts of similar outlook and realise realistically I need a change of mind for a 100% well finished product
: Brian Blunt
: Once you start doing this, it makes the rest of the engine look bad.
: Gregor Neil Robertson
: Oil filtration and circulation is absolutely essential, surely, a priority overhaul.

Norman Julian 26 Feb
: I have had a few half days lately so today I basically finished off the oil cooler.
: I cleaned up and will be reusing the nuts.
: I cleaned them up and they are OK, but I replaced the flat washers and spring washers.
: I made 2 new gaskets using some new material I got today.
: I have the information here so you can read about it.
: The other thing I did was to have another go at getting the plug off this end piece.
: I cleaned it up the other day and tried to undo it but I have a little apprehension about using to much force to get it off.
: Not sure how this system works.
: The spring in the unit makes no sense to me.
: I have had bad experiences in the past with alloys breaking.
: That's the reason for the apprehension.
: Today though I did manage to get it off and it was clogged with oily crud.
: Here in a picture I have taken it apart and cleaned it.
: I bought a few different size gasket material to make new gaskets for this engine.

Norms Restoration - 31 Seater Projects & Leyland DT 5 Project

1939 Leyland TD5 [1635 DD]

2020

Mechanical February